You won’t find any
cheese here - just tales
of the rats!
JJ BURNEL INTERVIEW
TRANSCRIPT
Dominic Pilgrim
Location: in a pub in West London, 18th January 2006.
Norfolk Coast, how did it do?
It did very well. In both commercial and critical terms, which is very
rare for The Stranglers. We either get critical or commercial but never
both.
It was global as well, wasn’t it?
Yeah. The only place we didn’t release it was the States. The offers we
got from The States, in terms of releasing and touring, were
insufficient. And it takes an awful lot into get into America now. I
won’t go there just to spend three months farting about. Frankly I don’t
see the point. I’m not desperate to break the States.
How about sales, what were they like? Compared with the other recent
albums?
They were about, in percentage terms, 3,000 percent greater than the
last album.
How about compared with In The Night?
Yep. Better than that. Much so. It’s the best of the new line ups.
Do you put that down to the critical acclaim, or better songs, or
what?
I think it’s an element of three things: John Ellis isn’t in the band
any more; the album is probably closer to what people wanted from the
Stranglers; and also the material is good. It’s taken a bit longer, but
the material is quite eclectic and quirky and still out there.
Is Baz’s contribution a big factor in that?
I think so, but you’ve got your ear closer to the fans, the hardcore
fans, the ones that have progressed with us -- not just the ones that
have grown old with us. The ones who have seen the evolution, and who
don’t just whitewash us -- the ones who are also critical in their own
way. I mean I think you’d be able to tell me better. I think some people
were quite unsympathetic to John Ellis.
Do you mean in terms of the writing, the playing or the dynamic?
It’s a combination of things. The dynamics. The way people perceive
somebody. Baz is so likeable. And he looks like he should be in the
Stranglers.
True. When Baz came into the band there was a general reaction of
“wow, this is more like it”
Why? Because they didn’t like John Ellis?
Well, I think it’s fair to say there is a divide among the fans on
John Ellis. The way he played and the way he embellished a lot of
the solos. A lot of fans didn’t like that. But Baz plays the same
guitar as Hugh; is truer to the original. He doesn’t try to prove
what he can do.
Yeah. You’re right. He treats the older songs that he wasn’t involved
with like classical music. He respects their arrangement, so to speak.
He respects them note for note, like maybe they should be. He doesn’t
interpret them. I think a lot of our songs have taken on the element of
classical pieces in a way, and people don’t want them to be fucked about
with too much. You can change the mood of a song, sure, but you can’t go
rewriting whole parts, not unless you originated it in the first place.
Why did you part company with John Ellis?
I think that’s been well documented.
Not really…
No?
I don’t think the whole story has gone down on record as such.
Er… well … Let’s just say, we were going to Kosovo, and John felt that
he should, maybe, be remunerated a bit more -- for going to a danger
zone. So, basically, we had a disagreement.
And you needed a new guitarist.
Yeah, we recruited Baz. He was the obvious choice. He did his first gig
in Pristina … about ten days later. His band Small Town Heroes had
supported us, so I knew he could play all The Stranglers songs.
Going back to Norfolk Coast there were more positive vibes about
Paul Roberts’s contribution to the album.
Yes, I think Paul’s singing was more disciplined than ever before and
more focused. The results were better. Sometimes, less is more.
In a way he was the John Ellis of vocals.
A bit flowery at times. But he was much more disciplined on Norfolk
Coast. It worked.
Live he’s getting better reviews as well.
Well it’s a happier band to be honest. We all get on well. Much better.
And the writing of the album. Did you do the majority?
Just about. Baz’s writing has come on, I really enjoy his writing. And
Paul chipped in with a song. And it all worked much. And we’re working
the same way this time. For the new one.
Tell us about the new one. You say you culled most of the tracks
last autumn.
About five or six have been killed but parts of one or two of them have
been saved. There was one song called Camden Afternoon which Baz still
likes, but needs a bit. It’s about the woman who got killed at Euston
station. She was having a coffee and her bag got nicked, she chased the
guys and she got hit by the car she was chasing, went on the bonnet and
then they run her over.
Happy song then?
Yeah, it’s about a couple of scum bags. It’s meant to be very sleazy. It
didn’t quite work out. But Baz is working on it because he believes in
it but… There’s another one and everyone likes the riff, but I must have
been in fourth- or fifth-former lyric mode when I wrote it. It’s about
George W Bush. And I always revert to fifth-former mode when I write
about him. So we culled that, and a few others.
So where are you now?
Well, we’ve got four songs fully recorded. Done. And Jet’s drumming on
one of them is fantastic.
So he’s drumming then?
Well he drums and he uses machines, it’s the modern way, he likes to do
a synthesis of the two.
How often do you meet up at The Farm?
We meet up every week -- although, we haven’t for a month. We’re
starting again this week. Cos some of us celebrate Christmas -- Jet
doesn’t.
How would you characterise the sound of the new songs compared with
Norfolk Coast?
Quirkier and janglier. Jingly janglier.
One of the things the fans have been saying that would have made
Norfolk Coast an absolute classic is the seven- or eight-minute,
album-closing extravaganza.
Ah. The classic epic. I agree.
Any chance of one for the new album?
There’s a chance. I’m trying to work on one. It’s a bit of a challenge,
getting disparate arrangements and connecting them together in one
thing. I like that, I’ve always liked that.
The early albums all had one.
Well, you had had Sewer, Toiler On The Sea, School Mam.
Genetix.
Genetix, Hallow To Our Men, The Raven. I’m working on one, yeah.
Do they need more collaboration?
Well, they’re all collaborations. And they still are. I mean I came up
with all the parts for Down In The Sewer and Hugh wrote the lyrics, I
came up with the parts for Toiler and Hugh wrote the lyrics, he’s
probably said this all in his book, Hallow to Our Men, same thing,
although The Raven was all mine actually.
The song everyone wants back in the set.
Is that right? Maybe I should write the next song all by myself. Lyrics
and parts. Easier said than done.
Raven part two?
[LOL] Well they’re also good fun to play too.
That’s what we miss, that tumultuous ending…
Yeah, it’s a good idea. I’d like to think I could come up with one, but
I don’t know until it’s recorded. They developed over a period of time.
Walk On By did, and with Down in The Sewer the last part of that
arrangement came at another time. You need a bit of time to develop them
really.
When is the DVD [of Shepherd’s Bush Empire, 2005] out? Any idea?
No idea. I believe the audio is finished. It’s just the video editing to
do, which can be a long process, with 12 cameras. It will have the
semi-acoustic set, the movie, the gig and the 2,000 nutters who were
there. It was good vibe, a good night.
Is there a 5.1 surround sound track or just Dolby 2.0?
You know, I don’t know actually, I imagine it will be the best they can
do.
Well if they have any trouble with the sound I could sort you out
with a good copy.
There is a bit of cheating on the audio. Max Bisgrove is mixing the it.
There are a couple of mistakes. He’s lifted a verse and replaced the
mistake. It’s not honest, but I think after a while, without that it
would become an irritation. Like a scratch on the record, you wouldn’t
want to hear that every time. You don’t wanna hear crap gigs over and
over.
So you’ve filled in the bit on Goodbye Toulouse when you stopped
playing then?
Yeah, I think they’ve done that.
So, the future then. You’re hoping the next album will be better?
I hope so. I’m counting on it. Because Norfolk Coast set up a new
benchmark for us and it’s a standard I’d like to maintain.
And touring?
Well, we were scheduled to finish the album last November. And we had
made tentative plans to release in February, and we had tentatively
started booking halls all over the place. Come November we only had two
or three songs done.
In the old days you would have just released an EP.
[LOL] And also it’s quite a physically hard thing to tour now,
especially in view of Jet and you’ve gotta respect that. So we never
know when it’s gonna be the last tour. It’s a worry with Jet really.
He’s incredible for his age, and he’s incredible full stop.
He’ll be 68 this year won’t he?
Is he that old? I can’t believe he’s carrying on. And he’s still a rock
n roller. He’s got a young girlfriend and he still contributes, and
tours and travels and god knows what else he gets up to. There’s no
healthy living for him. But you just don’t know how much the body can
take. But he hasn’t mentioned giving up and he loves playing.
If he stopped playing would you consider another drummer?
I’ve thought about it and I
haven’t come to any conclusions. Whether people would accept another
drummer, I don’t know. We have had loads of drummers. Jet’s health has
been an issue for ever. Mind you I might get taken out in a motorcycle
accident so anything can happen…
